Remember the talk of American becoming a "post-racial society?" It seems like a while ago now.
Social justice activist Paul Kivel has watched with great interest as the country has twisted and turned in dealing with people of different colors and nationalities.
He has completely updated his 1995 book, for a fourth edition of Uprooting Racism: How White People Can Work for Racial Justice.
Robert Goodwin, who hosts our segment The Keenest Observers, handles the interview.
Listen for a frank discussion of where we are, how we got here, and where we might go from here.