If you don't own cattle or at least never graze cattle on public lands, many of the issues raised during the Malheur Refuge Occupation can seem rather obscure.
The basic facts: federal lands are open to cattle grazing, and ranchers get pretty decent prices for their use of the land.
Beyond that, it can get into the weeds--literally--with terms like AUMs, Animal Unit Months.
Oregon Public Broadcasting reporters Jes Burns and Tony Schick put in many hours untangling the weeds, as it were.
They join us for a chat about their findings on what the rest of us need to know about grazing impacts on public lands, and how land managers often fall behind on required assessments of rangeland health.