The decades-long slide in church attendance prompts some people to think that we're not as moral as we once were.
Michael Shermer, professional skeptic, begs to differ. He says we're living in the most moral period in human history... and it's guided by science and reason, not religion.
Shermer makes the case in his book The Moral Arc: How Science and Reason Lead Humanity toward Truth, Justice, and Freedom.
We chatted with the author in 2015 and return to that interview here.