There comes a point in just about every organization when someone asks of a plan: "is it bulletproof?"
And rather than find out the hard way, many organizations, public and private, set up a "red team" to act like an adversary and test the capabilities of a plan or product.
We get a look inside the process of choosing and running a Red Team from the book of that name by security expert Micah Zenko.
He traces the practice back to the Catholic church of centuries ago, and shows how such teams can provide an effective hedge against trouble.
Micah Zenko joins us by phone.